Since this took such a pissing match turn i think i want to break this thread down a bit, so here goes LOL
Shone's truck does have stock crank and connecting rods. If you want a fun 1000 horse street truck, I'm not sure I'd go to a single. I would agree that your budget may be a little small...
This is where Jd suggests what thier customer runs, but sticks in that HE's not sure a single is the way to go, Thats JD's personal opinion as i see it (feel free to correct me if im wrong)
You could do it for cheap, but it would be a one run deal.
:whs: I don't see a cheap build being much fun to drive.
I see the two above posts being taken the wrong way by the "single" camp as again its just an opinion from two members
Does a person need forged rods? Maybe, maybe not. Forged rods run about $3500. New pistons if want to drop the compression ratios bit are about $2000 after coating. All new bearings and seals for the short block are cheap but any machine work can add up fast.
Here's my advice for you.
Build the short block the best you can so it doesn't have to come out again. Even if it means less hp due to funds at least you can upgrade later and not have to worry. Hard to upgrade rods and pistons but it's easy to upgrade injectors and stuff like that.
Shanes post is imho spot on...
I think the cost of 1k hp is what scares most people from making it. Sure, its "easy" to spit a dyno sheet and track times that prove 1k but those builds won't be reliable for long or last a long time either.
White_monster has it right, do it right the first time and be done.
You dont need deep pockets to have a fun street driveable 1000hp as long as you do it right the first time and dont buy everything you see in magazines...and as far as a single you can daily drive it fine all it takes is some tuning that is just about done
Now craig chimes in with his opinion, again its his own, he feels that his set up would work for most people, thats fine.
Really Craig. And what would the cost to replace that tweaked rod for the average guy? The cost to prevent further bent rods down the road?
who has bent a rod? at 1000hp i thought i did in my motor and there were found out not to be bent at all
as long as you keep back pressure down and dont go over 100 psi of boost i believe the bottom end is strong
every once in a while youll get a motor to crack a piston but that happens on stock trucks just as much as modified trucks
Here is where a misconception takes place because no one was updated the craigs rods werent actuall bent, had we known that some people probably wouldnt suggest some of the things they did, I see no bashing here just a simple missunderstanding
thats why we dont even try selling a 5r110 in a build of this caliber..my bts never had a problem at 1000hp and either did my motor til i did compounds now the problems started but we are well over 1000 now
This is craigs take on the 4r vs 5r
I wouldn't count out the 5R110 as being out of the game at 1,000 horsepower. We have more than a few living at that power level. The 4R100 has proven to have a lot of the same issues as the 5r... They use a few of the same parts after all.
this is Jd's side on it, i see no bashing from either side... correct me if im wrong
If you like to piss money out the window do what you guys want we know absolutely nothing here so im done in this thread
here is a bit where it starts....
what 5r110 has lived at track abuse other than a race truck for long periods of time? i counted over 100 1/4 mile passes that were between 10.8-11.3 and never missed a beat with my 4r....what 5r has done that?
Cant argue results like that OTHER than its the ONLY truck doing that, no other 4r converted truck is doing it. Craig uses his truck different than alot of other people.
my 4r has lived through alot of abuse and still looked new inside until i up the power now i cant keep shafts...my 5r would need a new converter about everytime i went to the track
Why not put a real "Race" transmission in the truck? Lenco and Brunodrive.
I think the reason why tadd suggested the lenco or bruno is because awhile back we had a transmission discussion found here...
http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15148 where tadd suggests that the limits of the 4r might be found soon due to transmission shaft size ect, too me it looks like tadd may have been correct due to the fact that craig is now breaking shafts not slipping clutches.
Now here is where the new battle comes into play, at what cost is it worth swapping to a 4r? If you are looking to run 10s all day long, then maybe, if you are looking for 1000hp but not compete with it all the time, then maybe a 5r is the way to go as suggested by some other members, mainly because of the cruis and PRNDL switch, again up to the end user to decide what is for them.
Now for a full race, maybe someone does need to do a lenco behind a 6.4... i know im waiting for it... LOL
still like to drive it on the street
Fair enough arguement to follow...
They should be streetable, an 88 into a 59vgt. So you know it will spool, just seems like a small vgt but I don't design these systems.
Craig you sure got butt hurt about some comments. You were pushing huge power and that motha blew. Compounds or the single it still died, and having your own shop with your own labor saves a boat load. I am way over 20k but I started not really knowing where I wanted to end up, so wasted some money going through set ups. Push 1000hp and if it is not supported by mods you may live and you may not. If it doesn't you are over 20k to have a motor built right and installed. So it may have not cost much to get to that level, but your ass is bending over taking the beating of a newly built motor later. I am on the side of build it right and not worry about it if you are going to have a huge power level and dd. Strange things happen when you drive it daily and put a lot of miles on it. Where mine sits now I think it would take the beating of driven daily and pushing close to 1000hp.
This is where erik gets involved, and maybe his wording wasnt the best but what i get out of it is, i spent my money for peice of mind, so i didnt have to do it again later. But as it was worded it was a jab at craigs way of doing things (or so i think correct me if im wrong)
not butt hurt just funny how everyone thinks they need to spend big money and that you spent over 40k probly? you dont need it period i could put out 1000 hp trucks all day for around 26-30k and they would hold up,,,and that includes transmission
Craigs response, fair enough, how long will it hold up tho? No one asked haha
That could be, but I guarantee you I couldn't drive one of those things here. I have no use for a truck with a converter that has to hit 3000rpm to help the single spool. The environmentalists don't tolerate smoke here.
Eriks point of view
I can drive my truck with little to no smoke here...and have a 1900 stall converter not 3k....
not saying my setup is perfect for everyone
craigs, and some clarification
I am glad you said it. Everyone has what they prefer, just hate it when people try to say something is the end all be all. Pretty sure there used to be a much higher stall in it before.
again probably not worded the best
We have always ran a 5r in his truck. It has always burned up clutchs though it has never burned up converters. But his truck also is not a competition truck so it has had very few 4wd launchs. Mainly it gets really hard roll ons from 65 to 100down the highway. It is currently running a stage 5 5r from Elite. Being as it is blowing through clutchs we are trying some different tricks internally that tadd thought should make it work. So far so good but it has only been in the truck for about 3 weeks. If you want to know more about what done to the trans get ahold of JD on here and he will get you set up.
Thats all I was getting at with my previous post. Everyone is turning this into a MPD vs Elite thread and its getting old I think. Were all ford guys on the same team here. Both of you guys make good products that fit into people lives and objectives differently. I have personally never installed any of your kits, which is why I have no experience to relate to on your setups.
all good points as i wish we all could get along and work together rather than seperate into "east vs west" mentality
If what you're after is the horsepower number, then yes, I 100% agree with you. Your truck is NASTY at the track, but you can't compare that driveability to Erik's. You just can't. Erik's truck is a BLAST on the street, and he can hook up to a horse trailer and drag horses from California all the way out to see you if he really wanted. 8" of lift and 37's and his truck performed flawlessly and his 5R110 that's been in the truck since last year didn't skip a beat.
Craig, you are the king of horsepower on a budget and you've proven that, but not everybody is after the same thing. Whether or not I'm beating a dead horse, your truck wouldn't perform here the way that it does at home, plain and simple. The same goes for Erik's, but Erik's is still clean and fun to drive up here.
On top of that, anyone that goes to a 4R100 has enough lights on the dash to send a person into an epileptic episode, and has no cruise control (for now anyway). I think it's a little premature to say the 4R is the end all be all as is the single. I'll be the first to say let's cut the bull sh!t. Your setups work for what you designed them for. In turn, our set ups have done everything that we have asked them to do as well. There's more than one way to skin a cat, let's not pretend that there isn't.
It's common knowledge that our compounds were designed with driveability in mind, as we retained VGT and the smaller high pressure chargers. Your setups are geared for all out god awful power that makes numbers no doubt. And for that, my hat is off. Both of the designs work as intended. It's cool that there are options, but not everybody has to agree with both.
The DPC this year was a good display of big singles vs compounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll1eaxzjOTc&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV53xeychrE&feature=plcp
I thought jd's post was very good, no bashing, and even complimented craigs acomplishements (correct me if im wrong)
You can spend next to nothing on a build, and break it...
You can also spend every red cent you have to build the baddest engine out there...and still break it. (a diesel power challenge competitor comes to mind.)
Trying to build power on a budget isn't gonna work, because sooner or later something does go wrong, and you need to fix it...which takes more money.
Not trying to bash or insult anyone, just trying to explain that in every case it takes money to play. How much power you want, or how fast you wanna go all depends on how fast you can refill your "Play money" bank account.
I agree with this statement 100% gotta find your happy medium money vs power...
the golden rule of racing
"He with the most $ goes the fastest, the longest."
so true
How good is the warranty on a set of high powers? And after I spray enough to hit 1k hp, is it still valid?
Fishing
They've got a 1 year warranty that is going to cover anything that precision screwed up building them.
If you over speed them or something like that, then I wouldn't expect the warranty to be honored.
honest reply
So they aren't really a viable 1k hp option? I wonder how Mike C's proven 850 hp compounds would perform at altitude versus Erik's truck.
fishing
Won diesel power challenge so it has to be good right?
Sent from my BatmoCharged iPhone
stab IMHO
I think that was a compliment.?
Absolutely , order my set yet?
Stab
This is why there's no respect between camps... Stuff like this. Let's all be men and call it like it is. The whole thing Where no one actually has the stones to step up and say something, just sh1tty comments in the background undermining someone else's accomplishments or product. It's ***kin stupid. I tried to get some acknowledgment in my post a couple pages back and it's still this crap? Come on boys. Compounds are not a new concept, neither are singles. Each has a purpose. I still don't get the whole thing about cheaper the better and how that supposedly makes someone dumb for overbuilding, but what do I know. These aren't Hondas or neons, take some pride.
:whs:
And i agree....
With that i have to say im pretty tired of this crap, it all honestly seams pretty innocent, and alot of misswording that gets taken the wrong way.
This forum is to bring plenty of options for the table and places to make purchases, talk about your results ect, i dont want anyone to hold back on suggesting a product, but im tire of people taking things as jabs one way or the other. The vendors here need to make money off thier products, i fully expect everyone to bring what they have to offer in a thread in hopes of a sale and some advice. The pissing matches need to stop so we can move forward, i have already talked to several people involved with this thread and i hope that we can all get along a little better and at least mutually respect one another as members and vendors, we are all here for the same reason... powerstrokes...
