Blew hg/ help me build a 700 hp dd

[Wayne]

Thanks, I will have to look up the part # to see what all that is when I get time.

I just got off the phone with Ben at Rudys, he is a nice guy. here is whats on the way.
EDE studs and gaskets
EDE ported rails
airdog and upgrade
mpd 60 nozzles
pump to rail driver and passenger line
rail to injectors lines
intake and exhaust gaskets
turbo install kit
egr delete with w/gate

Ben is checking on wait time on the tow power
he has the II turbos in stock.... what yall think about them?
also he cant find the bag of parts pump but has the II pump. what up with the II pump? some no some say yes

Elite injector nozzles come with injection lines. Tow powers come with install gasket kit. A new injection pump cover gasket comes with the lines from the pump to the rails. Ford recommends replacing the gasket any time it is removed. The wires in the cover gasket are prone to failure, especially on gaskets with lots of miles. Wire failure = engine not starting, and turbos back off to change the gasket. Unless you do custom tuning to decrease PW, you will see a significant increase in egt's constantly with that turbo upgrade. Even then, you might see higher than acceptable EGT's. You'll never be able to use those injectors to their maximum capability without a whole lot more air. Those 60% over nozzles are serious overkill for what you have. 60 HP, not 60% are recommended for the tow-power combo. 60%, or 110 hp nozzles are ideal for max-power turbos (way larger). Although those are recommended figures, more power capability is possible with oversize injectors, it is a trade-off of higher egt's and excessive smoke.

batmwheels for tow powers be good

Good? sure they're good, but are they better than the billet precision wheels that are already included with the turbos to begin with? All precision vs. batmowheel testing we've done suggests you'll lose power by going with the batmowheel over the precision.

Live tuning would be a good thing to add to the build and maybe a cam...

What are you doing for the trans?

Custom tuning will be crucial with big injector nozzles and stock pump. The DIY bag of parts, as mentioned before, is not available yet.


As for any advice from me, in a daily driver you may tow with, I'd prioritize air flow over increased fuel capability to get power with good EGT's. I'll be doing the ported intake, double billet tow power turbos, (no limit IC pipe and elbow already done) 4" down pipe, and when it's available, the bag of parts injection pump upgrade. Also plan on ported rails, airdog II and fuel bowl delete all with stock injector nozzles and custom tuning.

For years, duramax guys have been running 3.2+ ms pulse width, and the most I know of 6.4 guys running is 2.25. My theory is unproven to my knowledge, but if it isn't done before I get to it, I'd like to see just how much can be done with stock nozzles to keep minimal smoke and EGT's at sub 600 hp levels, and have solid power when I do sled pulling or screwing around. If increasing the pulse width doesn't work out well, then I'll go back to dropping 60 HP nozzles in. Food for thought at any rate.

 

[Craig@MFI]

Elite injector nozzles come with injection lines. Tow powers come with install gasket kit. A new injection pump cover gasket comes with the lines from the pump to the rails. Ford recommends replacing the gasket any time it is removed. The wires in the cover gasket are prone to failure, especially on gaskets with lots of miles. Wire failure = engine not starting, and turbos back off to change the gasket. Unless you do custom tuning to decrease PW, you will see a significant increase in egt's constantly with that turbo upgrade. Even then, you might see higher than acceptable EGT's. You'll never be able to use those injectors to their maximum capability without a whole lot more air. Those 60% over nozzles are serious overkill for what you have. 60 HP, not 60% are recommended for the tow-power combo. 60%, or 110 hp nozzles are ideal for max-power turbos (way larger). Although those are recommended figures, more power capability is possible with oversize injectors, it is a trade-off of higher egt's and excessive smoke.


Good? sure they're good, but are they better than the billet precision wheels that are already included with the turbos to begin with? All precision vs. batmowheel testing we've done suggests you'll lose power by going with the batmowheel over the precision.


Custom tuning will be crucial with big injector nozzles and stock pump. The DIY bag of parts, as mentioned before, is not available yet.


As for any advice from me, in a daily driver you may tow with, I'd prioritize air flow over increased fuel capability to get power with good EGT's. I'll be doing the ported intake, double billet tow power turbos, (no limit IC pipe and elbow already done) 4" down pipe, and when it's available, the bag of parts injection pump upgrade. Also plan on ported rails, airdog II and fuel bowl delete all with stock injector nozzles and custom tuning.

For years, duramax guys have been running 3.2+ ms pulse width, and the most I know of 6.4 guys running is 2.25. My theory is unproven to my knowledge, but if it isn't done before I get to it, I'd like to see just how much can be done with stock nozzles to keep minimal smoke and EGT's at sub 600 hp levels, and have solid power when I do sled pulling or screwing around. If increasing the pulse width doesn't work out well, then I'll go back to dropping 60 HP nozzles in. Food for thought at any rate.

And where is this data at ?

 

[Dzchey21]

Jesus take this crap to another thread

 

[Wayne]

And where is this data at ?

on a dyno graph.

You're the one recommending unvalidated parts. Where's your data indicating :clapping:BAT :clapping:MO :clapping:WHEELS :clapping: are better than precision billet wheels?

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

Seriously....

I doubt the OP wanted his thread derailed to the usual Elite vs. MPD crap.

 

[Craig@MFI]

I only said something because it be cool to see if they did make a difference never said they would

 

[Craig@MFI]

on a dyno graph.

You're the one recommending unvalidated parts. Where's your data indicating :clapping:BAT :clapping:MO :clapping:WHEELS :clapping: are better than precision billet wheels?

My point exactly your the one claiming its better with no data

 

[78f100]

You guys are the experts on these trucks, I really dont want to have to worry about egts all the time, I will tow some with it but mainly want it to be a good dd with reliable power and not alot of smoke. If I need to go 30 nozzles I will, yall help a brother out, any more thoughts on this. High egts and boost from a hard run got me here in the first place.

 

[78f100]

Seriously....

I doubt the OP wanted his thread derailed to the usual Elite vs. MPD crap.

I tried to spread the love around, got products from both...lol

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

You're new. This has been going on for what seems like forever.

 

[INFAMOUS]

FYI

60hp = 15% Over stock
85hp = 30% Over stock
110hp = 70% Over stock
150hp = 100% Over stock
250hp = 125% Over stock

Everyone is wanting nozzle ratings listed in LPM, We don't list ours in LPM for the simple fact that there is NO pressure standard for testing.

Our nozzles start raw, then are machined and extrude honed to our specs. That's where the price difference comes from.


With our experience, a single worn stock pump will not sufficiently maintain 60hp nozzles on a big tune, let alone 85's.
The II pump has been proven to maintain 110's, But is not reliable.

 

[78f100]

are the mpd nozzles rated the same way?

 

[Wayne]

You guys are the experts on these trucks, I really dont want to have to worry about egts all the time, I will tow some with it but mainly want it to be a good dd with reliable power and not alot of smoke. If I need to go 30 nozzles I will, yall help a brother out, any more thoughts on this. High egts and boost from a hard run got me here in the first place.

In all seriousness, you're well on your way to a really sweet build. My only recommendation would be to drop nozzle size, or leave stock nozzles in for reasons mentioned previously. Your call though; peak power vs. Heat & smoke.

 

[78f100]

In all seriousness, you're well on your way to a really sweet build. My only recommendation would be to drop nozzle size, or leave stock nozzles in for reasons mentioned previously. Your call though; peak power vs. Heat & smoke.

Thanks man, I am probably gonna call rudys and see if i can just send the 60's back when they get here and go with the 30's or keep stock. I really dont want egt problems, should the egt's and smoke be ok with the 30's? I really don't want it to smoke any more than it does stock with the 345 tune.

You guys will have to forgive me I havent been on the forums enough to know who you are and what you have done with these trucks. I know openions are like butt holes everybody's got one, but it seems like most of you are saying the same thing.

 

[Wayne]

With good custom tuning the 30% nozzles would be decent. As Dustin pointed out, with larger nozzles and shorter pulse width you can have a more efficient burn, keeping the fire in the piston bowl, and fuel capability for more air in the future. If it were me though, I'd prioritize a ported intake manifold over injectors. Big problem with that though is the wait. They're a couple weeks out at best with a waiting list at times.

 

[Erikclaw]

Tow powers, 60 hp nozzles, will have low egts and limited smoke. Add a ported manifold and some porting they will be a great and cool, with my tow power set up you had to really work to see anything high enough to make you worry.

 

[78f100]

I asked about porting your own intake earilier but didn't get much back. This may be a dumb question as I have never seen a 6.4 intake off the engine. Is it built in a way a regular machine shop could port it? Reason for asking my buddy's daddy is a awesome machinist he builds alot of heads and engines for sprint cars. Like I said I have not looked at one it may require special tooling/skills he doesn't have.

 

[forcefed6.4ford]

As far as the ported intake manifold goes. All those that I have had a chance to talk to about it say that it was a noticeable improvement with an upgraded turbo.

 

[78f100]

With good custom tuning the 30% nozzles would be decent. As Dustin pointed out, with larger nozzles and shorter pulse width you can have a more efficient burn, keeping the fire in the piston bowl, and fuel capability for more air in the future. If it were me though, I'd prioritize a ported intake manifold over injectors. Big problem with that though is the wait. They're a couple weeks out at best with a waiting list at times.

I was going off what he said, if I could just have mine ported by my buds dad I would but I don't want to wait for weeks. Lower egts are pretty important to me now.

 

[Erikclaw]

The manifolds used to be with media shot into them but they can blow out an end easily. Elites new ones have the top cut off and then ported out mechanically and welded back up, but I know there is more to it than that.